6 Aug
Why are people lying about the costs of the energy bill that just passed the House?
The Non-Partisan CBO says 175 dollars more per year in 2020 and EPA at 80 dollars to 110 a year and the costs will be offset by tax rebates and credits. 175 dollars a year is about 50 cents a day. A cap and trade system was put in place in 1990 Clean Air ACt to reduce sulfur dioxide emissions which was successful and was signed by President George H.W. Bush. Investing in clean energy, having more energy efficient buildings and green jobs and reducing CO2 emissions.
Steve that was to reduce sulfur dioxide, now we are trying to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
no CBO is non-partisan
the bill was negotiated for months, I think people had time to consider the bill. It is not perfect but a step in the right direction, even some liberals oppose it such as COngressman Dennis Kucinich because he feels it isn’t strong enough.
As I have said rebates and credits will offset the price increases, and jobs won’t be lost new green jobs will be created because of the bill.
Steelers Girl- UNemployment won’t reach 15%. Even with eight years of the worst economic policies since the Great Depression we are only at 9.4%. THere were cyclical depressions before the Great one and only recessions after that. A huge reason for a bad econmoy is peak oil and the high cost of crude oil so we need to get off o fossil fuels.
Dr.M- stock market just means rich people are getting even richer, it doesn’t represent the entire economy. The Bush administration had: Record federal deficits, record trade deficit, very low job growth, worst financial crisis since the Depression, deregulation, a housing sector in freefall, high bankruptcy rates, high inflation (as high as 1.60 to the Euro), declining wages while the cost of everything rose and he vetoed SCHIp for children’s health care.
Posted by Boss H on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
Because that is what the right does, to protet their beloved pollution.
Posted by Steve M on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
"A cap and trade system was put in place in 1990 Clean Air ACt to reduce sulfur dioxide emissions which was successful and was signed by President George H.W. Bush"
Then why do we need another one?
Posted by Blue Eyed Devil on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
can you prove they are lying? What is a non-partisan CBO? the one you agree with?
Posted by Media Circus on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
I wish I would have invested in energy efficiency, but instead I bought a TV that drains as much power as my stove.
Crappy part about it for me is the electricity caps are about to pop off here in Pennsylvania next year and there is nothing people can do about it. People were sent estimates in the mail of what their electricity bill will be next year at this time. Someone with a 165.00 bill will be seeing a 600.00 bill. I think it’s time I get some energy efficiency.
The problem is here in PA the electric companies have to rely on the government for funding because of these caps. They have not been able to charge people what they owe since the 80’s. The world around them flexed with the inflation, but they had to keep their rates the same.
Posted by Egads on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
I would like to hear from one leftist here why it is this bill must be shoved down the throats of the citizens of this country without time for anyone to read it. Such tactics can only be defined as fascist in nature and oppressive to the citizens of this country. How else can you describe the actions of an administration who does not want any opposition to develop through information and debate? This is exactly how the so-called "stimulus" bill passed. This is also how they will legalize millions of illegal immigrants. This is quickly becoming the Modus Operandi of this administration and should send chills down the spines of all citizens. Anyone who does not see that this is right out of the writings of Karl Marx needs to start doing some reading because we are all in danger of losing our country.
Posted by Giachetta *Italian Chick* on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
WE ARE IN A RECESSION! WE DONT NEED MORE TAXES!!
when will the liberals get that through their thick heads?!?!?!?
did you not know that many businesses will relocate out of the country & more people will lose their jobs? did you not know that all the companys will pass on the extra cost to consumers through higher prices & taxes?
I live in texas where I will have to pay extra money to keep my home cool because It gets as hot as 108 (temperature today in JUNE)I have a new born whose life I am not about to risk for the damn enviorment which we have no controll over.
Posted by freimei on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
The CBO originally stated $1700 dollars per year and Nancy Pelosi (from CIA are liars fame) told them to trash the numbers and come up with something that was more in line with the character of the Democrats, you know a big lie.
Posted by dizneygeek on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
The CBO is full of crap. They can’t estimate anything and the House doesn’t even know how much this damn thing will cost since they didn’t even read it. Most estimates indicate it will be at least $3,000 per year per family.
BTW, what tax rebates and credits? Try to remember that when businesses are taxed, they ALWAYS pass the tax onto consumers. That’s part of business.
ANY tax is bad for the economy, especially in a recession!
Posted by krollohare2 on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
The CBO will crunch numbers the way they are told. By omitting certain factors, they came up with a different number.
Fortunately, the other independent and frankly anti-Capp n Trade groups re-ran the numbers and it works out to about $3500 a year and growing.
The CBO doesn’t talk about other costs such as food, tires, batteries, road taxes, water, wastewater, trash pickup, and just about everything else that will be DIRECTLY affected by this.
Be prepared to spend another $300 a month at least and oh yeah for the poor people in Pennsylvania, their bill won’t average at $600 it will be $900 now.
So you will be paying rent to the following people: (1) mortgage company or landlord (2) the county taxing authority (3) income taxes at state and federal levels (4) excise taxes for everything and (5) higher food prices because as we know food’s dependent upon …. OIL!
Duh!!!
Obama and Pelosi and Reid and Waxman and Markey are friggin liars.
You will curse their names in 2010.
Posted by Peace through blinding force on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
Children, Cap and Trade was written by the Socialist International with the STATED purpose of decimating the American economy. Do you really think a couple hundred bucks is going to do that?
Do you really think ANY Democrat would object to reassuring you with price caps if they believed the numbers you’re talking about?
Their refusal to do so PROVES beyond any rational debate that they EXPECT skyrocketing costs and INTEND such.
BTW, SO2 levels fell FASTER before CAA 1990 than they have since.
This bill is INTENDED to increase pollution by orders of magnitude by shifting production AWAY from the cleanest plants and TO the World’s very filthiest in China and other Communist strongholds. The authors said this is absolutely inevitable.
Posted by Noah H on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
The longer we stay with 19th century technology the more it will cost. The sooner we move on to 21st century technology the soon costs will stabilize. Cap and trade is part of that package. let’s suck it up and move on!
Posted by Jimmbbo on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
Uh huh… government estimates of the cost of their programs is SOOO accurate… lessee… Medicare, Social Security, AmTrak, Post Office… ALL BROKE or WAY over estimated costs.
Oh, and those green jobs? When the EU went to CnT, a Spanish study showed that 2.2 jobs were LOST for every "Green" job created… So, I guess Barry can claim CREATING jobs, but will he claim those lost? Unlikely.
Well, at least the tax revenues will help, right? WRONG! Pelosi had to give away 85% of the proceeds in pork barrel promises to get enough votes to pass… a real winner, there.
Posted by cshs1960 on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
300 Pages Out of Thin Air
ReadTheBill.org
Today is the day that the House plans to vote on the cap and trade bill that has mysteriously changed this week. Last night, the bill changed again. We are now looking at an additional 300-pages that will be considered as amending H.R. 2998, the replacement bill of origins unknown. This is what the House Rules Committee tells us:
[I]n lieu of the amendment recommended by the Committee on Energy and Commerce now printed in the bill, an amendment in the nature of a substitute consisting of the text of H.R. 2998, modified by the amendment printed in part A of the report of the Committee on Rules accompanying this resolution, shall be considered as adopted.
This means that H.R. 2998, which will be considered as an amendment in the form of a substitute, will include an additional 300 pages approved by the Rules Committee that will not be voted on. Let me see if I can run this down quickly and succinctly:
The original bill, H.R. 2454, approximately 1,000 pages, was reported out of the Energy & Commerce Committee.
It was replaced this week by H.R. 2998, 1,201 pages, which will be voted on as an amendment in the form of a substitute.
The Rules Committee, last night, released a committee report that includes a 300-page amendment to H.R. 2998. This 300-page amendment, the Waxman amendment (#121), is considered as adopted upon an affirmative vote for H.R. 2998, the amendment in the form of the substitute.
This means that we are looking at 300 extra pages added to the bill overnight. Stay tuned for more and go to ReadTheBill.org to tell your congressman that we need time to read the bills.
Posted by Levon the Man on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
"and jobs won’t be lost new green jobs will be created because of the bill."
What’s the technical word for this? Oh yeah, BULLS*IT!
Posted by Dr. M on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
when you mentioned the eight years of worst economic policies since the great depression despite the worlds record of stock market averages in 2007, I knew you were on crack.
Also since the president said we wouldn’t pass 8% and it’s 9%+ he was either lying or wrong, I have no reason to believe any of this especially since I know you’re on crack now and there’s a lie/mistake right there. You really have drunk the kool-aid on oil prices and what has happened with all this haven’t you?
I vote you reduce your greenhouse emissions and pay higher taxes if you feel better and leave me be.
Posted by wyldfyr on 06.08.09 at 2:53 pm
For anybody that trusts the utility companies, I’ve got some stock in Enron to sell them. These people never said anything when their bills more than doubled thanks to deregulation and market manipulation.